A group Conversation : Law Of Karma


keshava Prasaad

Most of the scriptures say that The Karmas ,i.e good and bad deeds of an individual is transported to his next life. but some people say that good/bad deeds of a person goes to his family in future. which one of them is correct.if both are correct,then to what extent?

Jatin Prakash

The law of karma is for individual only. it is family/surrounding related in the sense that the law of karma teaches us by experience. let us suppose I kill somebody in this birth, it is immediately recorded by the soul and in the forthcoming birth in which I will have burn it by experience, before coming to this birth I choose to balance it by experiencing the death of my son. then the coming son who will be coming have his individual karma which suits him and me to die. karma is personal thing but experience may involve many others. I hope you get the point.

Detective_Mongo_Phd

A person joins into a family, and ever since, until the day they all die, they share karma. What karma is not used up will be passed onto the owner of that karma the next round.

swastik10

How can one accurately analyse and organize a life acording to Karma?? My position in life has always been odd....I was born to a imple broken home of manual labor types, yet always persued spiritual, artistic and intellectual interests since I was a boy. I am the exact opposite in disposition to the rest of my family!!!

It has always been a source of friction in my life but I take it like all things and it is a mystery of this birth given by MA.

But I ask my friends, brothers and sisters of this group, is there a way to understand ones Karma and position in this world???

I ask because I think many people who do not possess a Karmic understanding fall pray to the worlds traps and the whims of the Three Gunas.

Its a serious question!

Devi Bhakta

*** I ask my friends, brothers and sisters of this group, is there a way to understand ones Karma and position in this world??? ***

The only way is through serious, sustained sadhana. Intellectual analysis and emotional hand-wringing are diverting pastimes, but will lead nowhere of consequence. Sadhana eventually will; and will prepare one to receive one's guru, who will "understand one's Karma and position in this world" and guide accordingly.

*** I ask because I think many people who do not possess a Karmic understanding fall pray to the worlds traps and the whims of the Three Gunas. its a serious question! ***

It's a serious answer.

sankara menon

And Sri Vidya alone grants the instant release from the cycle of Karma. I am not sure but I do not think any other sadhana grants that even before you start.

virendra qazi

Respected Menon Ji,

Pranam! Trika Yoga grants the instant release from the cycle of Karma.

"Tirvatam Shaktipath" is descend of extreme Grace on chosen ones.

Jatin Prakash

dear sankara, I wonder why you said that srividya gives you release from karma before you start. After you start and do all the practises/rituals it is understandable, but how can anything happen before you start. could you elaborate.

There is one more question i want to ask the learned members. I want to know the nature of "ego"and what is meant by ego in spiritual sense. I can understand the english meaning, for example we say with khadgamal practice we cut the ego from the body, etc.. like we read somewhere that you have to dissolve ones ego to merge itself to the supreme. like we say that lalita is the primordial energy, etc..with this defintion one gets the scientific as well as spiritual understanding. we know where we are heading. in the same way I wish to know what is ego, if we have to dissolve it what we have to dissolve in energy/shakti terms.I hope learned members will understand what I wish to know an will provide me their view.

thanks.

Detective_Mongo_Phd

there is one more question i want to ask the learned members. I want to know the nature of "ego"and what is meant by ego in spiritual sense.

Ego in the spiritual sense is the thread of awareness which ties one to a locale. As one moves self consciousness away from a mere body reference to a cosmic reference the ego becomes less localized until it can no longer be pin pointed (not that it can be pinpointed anyway, the ego is really a mental illusion in the first place). The loosening of the ego per se is what starts the kundalini in motion. The two things occur simultaneously.

I can understand the english meaning. for example we say with khadgamal practice we cut the ego from the body, etc.. like we read somewhere that you have to dissolve ones ego to merge itself to the supreme. like we say that lalita is the primordial energy, etc..with this defintion one gets the scientific as well as spiritual understanding. we know where we are heading. in the same way I wish to know what is ego, if we have to dissolve it what we have to dissolve in energy/shakti terms.

You can't hope to dissolve the ego by the force of the ego. The ego will be dissolved only through merging in something bigger and more satisfying than ones limited personality. This is why the paths of bliss are more profound and quicker than the paths of study. Bliss stabilizes the personality when the ego is fading away. The process of the ego fading is not an easy one, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't traversed that path. Ultimately there was no ego in the first place. If your believe that there truely is one then please point out where it lies? The ego becomes replaced by the mandala of deities and the whole inner workings of the cosmos in the temple of the body.

This ego's two cents - as usual, not enough money for a cup of coffee.

Sankara menon

Because only the very fortunate few get the deeksha and with the deeksha we cut off all our previous karmas. The texts say not only yours but that of 21 generations up and down as against 7 generations up and down when you take sanyasa deeksha. Thats what i have understood. maybe wrong.

Jatin Prakash

hi sankara and all, I was reading in an article where it states that when the prabadha karma is exhausted the soul separates from the body(and the man dies I assume) and moves on.So one is released from karma what path it takes, what action he does. Basicallly I wish to know what haapens to the soul and the person when he is released from karmic bondage. how are his actions judged, etc, what happens to his purpose of life I assume you or my guess is,you would have been deekshit. so what is the experience of breaking the bond of karma.i mean we study that human life is based on karma. so what happens if it is removed.

Mouse

SM: And Sri Vidya alone grants the instant release from the cycle of Karma.

[Mouse] I've been always concerned of teachers and teachings who claim "only our path is/does/grants..."

avibhavit

It is true that without sadhana it is difficult to acquire details of one's previous lives and corresponding karmas, yet watching one's life's events with awareness definitely gives you sufficient clues to decipher some aspects of it.

For example, in your mail what loomed large was 'source of friction' the family.

Let's assume an entity X is culturally evolved, refined, moving forward and 'acknowledges' a lot more than necessary these qualities in himself. This trait is turning itself into a more pronounced ego than in others. X insults people for their inferior knowledge, mind and status, considers himself to be a little god, and along the line ends up deeply hurting some who loved him dearly and cared genuinely. After death X realizes like other intelligent spirits, "I'm my own obstruction toward the growth of my spirit." He also feels badly about hurting the people who loved him dearly. He makes a pact with them. "I'll be born as your son, I'll try to make amends..." He comes back with some of his previous traits, therefore, has leanings for things other than the material. However, he has forgotton (like most of us) he has a karma to work out in this particular set of environment. They exasperate him (they are supposed to), try his patience, drive him upto the wall - all this is granted, nonetheless, X has to REACT differently this time around. He has to approach them with warmth and love and "respect" and try to understand where THEY come from. It will be a beginning of a thread he can get hold off, and work his way forward.

The example presented above is just a rhetorical situation.

If we were to react yogically to the situations and events in life - most of the times we'll be dong the right thing. In order to react yogically, of course one will have to practice Yoga (any form of spirituality is meant here); nonetheless, if we don't react out of likes/dislikes, ego, anger, (God knows, there are scores of other traits), we end up making not too bad a decision - hence a karma - either.

Satish Arigela

SA: IMHO, when texts(Lord Shiva speaks in these texts) say Srividya alone can grant, it should be understood as an exaggeration. Because Lord Shiva elsewhere said the same about other systems. Practically speaking, what people mean when they say only Srividya can grant is that Srividya grants them *quickly compared* to others like, say Trika or other systems.

While it may take a couple of births to ascend to a certain spiritual state in other systems, Srividya can take its practitioners to that same state may be in just one life time. In that sense, one can say that Srividya alone can grant.

To Mongo: Instant release (ref:Shaktipatha) is not given to every Jack and Jill on the road. It is definitely possible and is given only to a chosen few who are ripe enough for it.

21 generations - 7 generations: This is probably said only to impress upon the reader the greatness of Srividya. I dont think it needs to be taken too literally.

Pancharatra texts *might* have similar claims. Will check.

Ex: A certain text says, if one does a certain mantra sadhana without guru he will become diseased and die in less than 100 days. This neither means one will really die nor does it mean that the author forced someone without a guru to do the sadhana and counted the days till his death.

Note: Concept in above example doesnt apply to eveything. Ex: Prayogas. Prayogas (Experiment/Application) are precise instructions. If it says enemy will die within a week after doing a certain ritual, it will really happen.

What is an exaggeration and what is not will be understood from close observation and comparison of a number of texts.

Detective_Mongo_Phd

Karma. Everything is karma. I heard someone say that dharma erases karma. That is not the meaning of dharma in Sanatana Dharma. In that case dharma is following the correct varnashrama and 4 phases of life. Ie., kama, artha, dharma, moksha.

Dharma is different in different systems. In Sanatana dharma one finally follows The Dharma of moksha is the fourth phase of life, unless one is a renunciate. In Buddhism, Buddhism is called The Dharma because it is only about moksha, and nothing else.

The Dharma of moksha liberates obviously from karma, not the dharma of kama, artha, and dharma.

It's an interesting experience seeing the wheel of samsara when one is trying to become liberated. How many people always feel strapped onto a Medieval torture rack and stretched when trying to decide between two things? The intellect trys to fathom the correct course of action only to undo itself over and over.

This is why only the divine can release one from the dualities of karma and the wheel of samsara. Only transcendence can free one from karma and its effects. If one gets diksha from one truely established in transcendence then be sure release from samsara will follow with practice.

What I objected to in my cup o soup comment is that people can release from karma while still following evil personality traits. It might be theorized that murderers and theives never get diksha but certainly this isn't true. There are countless stories. Buddha is called The Conquerer because he tamed a wild Elephant and an evil highway robber. So also, other gurus. But the point is that karma is still created, even after transcendence, all the way to nirvikalpa. So one shouldn't make the mistake that errant Hare Krishnas made in California running drugs and guns for ISKCON. One's karma will catch up to one eventually. Diksha or not. But whether one will obtain moksha before that uncertain date is also up to one.

I descry methods which say that one can go on being a jerk to everyone and still be liberated. It may be true for some few individuals, but I personally wouldn't bank my evolution and moksha upon this notion.

sankara menon

Its not that easy, even "good" karma is a bondage and results in re-birth. so in order to cease karma one must become actionless.

Srivdya is ONE OF the paths that cut off the karmas good or bad. I said "as far as I know". Virendra spoke of Trika. there maybe other paths as well. I did not exclude any but spoke of what I know of.(not that I know much)

Detective_Mongo_Phd "But the point is that karma is still created, even after transcendence, all the way to nirvikalpa. "

I can only speak of srividya. even that rather sketchily because i am no authority. But what i have understood is that after deeksha you become a setchaachaari without attracting the karma that you create and it does not attach to you in any way.

Mouse

SM: I said "as far as I know". Virendra spoke of Trika. there maybe other paths as well. I did not exclude any but spoke of what I know of.(not that I know much)

[Mouse] I apologize for misinterpreting. You probably meant "Shri Vidya alone (i.e. by Himself, with no need for anybody else) grants release...", while I understood it as "nobody but Shri Vidya can grant release..."



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