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Prisni Satish wrote : When initiated, the fruit of japa is obtained according to the shraddha and bhakti the mantrika (one who practices mantra japa) possesses, and it does not depend on which peetham or ashrama gave the mantra. No devata is going to look at that. I wish I could say that initiation is not necessary, and that it is possible to reach bhakti without it. Of course I can say it, but unfortunately I am initiatied myself, and in addition put my complete life in the hands of my guru and let him do what he wanted with me. So who is going to believe me? If I am allowed to say it, for me it often looks like the persons who only study, study, and don't have the personal guidance from the guru, often have problems to figure out what is right and wrong, what is essential and what is not and often don't get a kind of clearity. On the other hand, I think it looks like those who have a proper training and initiation from a guru, often are much more to the point, and know their own process very good, and get a kind of vision what is according to the process and what is not. One thing is clear, that having a good guru, it is so much simpler to reach the result of the chosen process. Now, I have been under the guidance of my guru for 18 years, so I can't imagine how many years it would take for someone without a guru. But it might be possible. Maybe I am just slow in understanding and learning? I think bhakti is one of the harder yoga paths and not one of the simpler. It is very slow to give result. It gives some result fast, but then it takes a very long time to solidify that result and make it steady and permanent. Anyway, I don't think anyone is going to belive me. And I am not sure I care. I am happy with what I have gone through, and it was well worth the time it took. And the path is not ended. There is no end to bhakti. Nora Prisni remarked : "I wish I could say that initiation is not necessary, and that itis possible to reach bhakti without it. Of course I can say it, but unfortunately I am initiatied myself, and in addition put my complete life in the hands of my guru and let him do what he wanted with me" Thank you prisni, as usual I always love to read your message, most often clear and balanced. I do not deny that there is a need for initiation. I look forward for that day myself, if its Devi will, it will happen. Mean times we have to go on with our own sadhana. Might be slower as you said, but its better than nothing. Some might say : What's the rush? Why this need be in a hurry? Somebody asked me once : Nora what is like to be initiated. Since I am not I can only an answer based on my personal understanding. Do correct me if you think I am wrong. "you will leave a different person I guess , A different feeling.A feeling of not being afraid anymore and a feeling of : now I know where I am to go and my path is clear in front of me. It is like driving a car. The road you drive is there before you but you are still not sure. But now you have the instruction and suddenly the road signs becomes clear and meaningful and you can drive to your destination confidently because you know you are in the right track" But again there are people who don't need the map as they already have this navigational skills inbound in them or you don't need a person to be your side, for you already have a reliable map with you. Travelling with a companion can be fun, but to some traveling alone ( especially loners ) too can achieve the same result. Then we too must remember that we are in the age where there are people who like to pretend to be Guru. Claimed to have been initiated and goes on giving deeksha to shishyas. These poor Shishyas believed in the statement of these "Gurus" and accept the deeksha in all faith. I had an interesting discussion with regards to this, about this constant need of having a Guru with my co moderator, and this is what he have said : "Lakshmi Dhara and Karapatra swami and the author of srividyaarnnava foresaw a situation where written media would be the Guru and every one feels the time has come" Prisni Nora wrote : I do not deny that there is a need for initiation. I look forward for that day myself, if its Devi will, it will happen. Mean times we have to go on with our own sadhana. Might be slower as you said, but its better than nothing. Some might say : What's the rush? Why this need be in a hurry? We will reincarnate, and reincarnate. There is no death. So actually there is no hurry either. Hurry is for those who does not know that that existence continues after death. But then, mistakes are not fatal either. There will always be another chance. "Then we too must remember that we are in the age where there are people who like to pretend to be Guru. Claimed to have been initiated and goes on giving deeksha to shishyas. These poor Shishyas believed in the statement of these "Gurus" and accept the deeksha in all faith The world is full of them. But somehow I suspect that it has always been like this. People have so many different desires and so many different goals, so there needs to be teachers for all of them. I have been with one guru, and could also observe how many different things his disciples wanted him to be. Naturally he could not be all that, so some became disappointed. Thus some considers him a false guru, and some a true (whatever that means). Therefore I think one should try to find a teaches what one want to hear, not the "perfect" teacher which might teach something else. |